90. Sam Lee: The Modern Independent Worker

A conversation with Sam Lee, Founder & Managing Partner of E3 Ventures, a platform that invests, advises, and builds companies that unlock human potential. He is also the Founder & CEO of IndeCollective, the place where top independent workers go to supercharge their careers. He is also an alum of WeWork, Goldman Sachs, and AOL.

Unknown Speaker 0:01
salary is a drug they give you when they want you to forget about your dreams.

Alessia Citro 0:06
Welcome to the corporate dropout podcast. I'm your host Alessia Citro. If you're sick of the corporate hamster wheel and looking to feel inspired and empowered to live a high vibe life as your own boss, you're in the right place, dare to drop out in 321. Before we start the show, I want to tell you about the business I'm launching. Do you have a business idea but you don't know where to start? Or maybe you've started your own business. But you know, there are boxes you need to check when it comes to taxes, finance, legal protection, marketing, and more. Same. That's why I founded theia collective named for the Greek Goddess of Light Theia was created to light the path for entrepreneurs. We have the community courses and connections that will help every entrepreneur quantum leap and avoid costly mistakes. Learn from experts across professions and get the blueprint you need for your business. Text biz, that's BIZ to 949-577-8709 or head to be a dash collective.com to learn more. Hello, friends. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Sam Lee. Sam is the Founder and Managing Partner of E three ventures a platform that invests advises and builds companies that unlock human potential. He is also the founder and CEO of Indy collective, the place where top independent workers go to supercharge their careers. He is also an alum of WeWork, Goldman Sachs and AOL, Sam, thanks for coming on the show.

Sam Lee 1:36
Thank you so much for having me.

Alessia Citro 1:38
And I appreciate you and the listeners dealing with potentially like baggage claim intercom announcements while I'm sitting in the Phoenix airport, but we're just gonna roll with it. Right? That's the life of a corporate dropout.

Sam Lee 1:48
That's exactly right.

Alessia Citro 1:50
So Sam, I have to tell you, I am not one that really gets easily impressed. But your resume did that for me. So you did undergrad at UPenn? You have a master's from Harvard, and you began your career as a consultant to the World Bank before you moved to Goldman Sachs? Can you tell us about college grad school and the early years of your career and what you wanted to be when you grew up, quote unquote?

Sam Lee 2:13
Absolutely. And I'll start by saying I'm a corporate dropout, to write as are all your guests. So I think we share that in common. Yeah, so just my quick 30,000 foot. I started my career in international development, right World Bank is an international development organization. And I studied politics and international development at UPenn, and Harvard. So that was kind of where, where my heart found me in the early days of my career. And once I got into the bureaucracy of those organizations, I realized that that swim lane wasn't for me, it wasn't, it wasn't a space in which I'd have my greatest impact. So So I quickly changed lanes. And that took me unexpectedly to Goldman Sachs, where I had the pleasure of meeting with a boss, now mentor, friend, Dina Powell, who was leading at the time, a lot of their corporate engagement, which was everything related to public private partnerships, philanthropy, impact investing, she now is a you know, managing partner and oversees a lot of their revenue. So she's done a lot of things. But I joined her team, as her chief of staff, early in my career, and it was an incredible platform to translate what I had studied and learned in the public policy arena into the private sector. And that kind of launched me into a next chapter. And it was one of now many chapters of a career that has spanned internet, real estate, big companies, startups, and now independent work.

Alessia Citro 3:39
So you touched on something that I think is so interesting, I mean, I'm not naive enough to think that there's not bureaucracy at big corporations, like Goldman or Google, right, like we've all experienced that too. But like, something you said, I just want to underscore is the fact that like, you got out of public service, because of all that red tape and moved into the private sector because of that, I mean, I'm glad that you were able to put your gifts and skills to use but what's your thought on that? I mean, I wasn't really expecting to ask you this. But like, what would you say is really the downfall of a lot of these public organizations? And do you think that there may be losing out on a lot of talent just because of how many restrictions they have and the bureaucracy that lies within?

Sam Lee 4:17
Yeah, yeah, I would say, you know, as, as a senior millennial, as an older millennial, I'd say those in our generation, and certainly younger generations, have been really prioritizing the ability to grow and to contribute, right? We want opportunities to be stretched to expand to make bigger contributions. And I think, honestly, slow moving organizations, whether they be public, private, or nonprofit, are losing out in this war for talent because they can't keep up. They can't keep up with the opportunities around growth and contribution that younger people so desperately crave. So that's that's where I found myself at that crossroads, and I was fortunate enough frankly, with it's the first day of Women's History Month with an amazing mom, who had worked in the public sector, but had transitioned into the private sector herself to say, hey, there's actually other options out there for you. And it got me thinking more expansively. And that's when I took my first baby steps into the private sector. But but there's plenty of really amazing I've done work with pro bono work and board work with nonprofits. So there's there's nonprofits and public organizations that that Think fast, move quickly and that create those opportunities, but honestly, I think they're, they're not in the majority.

Alessia Citro 5:37
Yeah, I would agree with you. And I think that that is one of the driving forces that people our age, like one of the reasons why they leave the corporate world is they want to make more of an impact. By the way, our mutual friend Tanya calls it geriatric millennial, not senior millennial, but senior millennial sounds a little nicer.

Sam Lee 5:55
Exactly. I wouldn't I wouldn't put myself in a geriatric category yet, but I probably that's what I am. Yeah.

Alessia Citro 6:00
And, you know, coming out of denial is the first step right. Okay, in any event. So Sammy went from Chief of Staff at Goldman, to then head of business planning and operations at AOL. What was it that led you to transition from finance to tech?

Sam Lee 6:15
tech? Yeah, absolutely. So after about two and a half, three years at Goldman, I had sunk my teeth into all sorts of things that I didn't think I'd ever experience, I'd had the chance to actually work with people like Warren Buffett, Mayor Bloomberg, some pretty neat people, I did everything from their speech writing, I wrote words that they spoke at different conferences to getting destructure, public private partnerships that the firm was on the bleeding edge of. So it was it was a really, really neat experience. But by that two and a half, three year mark, I realized that, as somebody who wanted to build a team, somebody who wanted to build and own a p&l as a non revenue generating individual and a big firm, I wasn't going to have those opportunities. So So that led me to, again, think more expansively to start speaking to Headhunters, to talk about my superpowers with those folks and see how they thought I could translate them into those opportunities into revenue, and p&l ownership into team building. And that that led me to shift into the internet industry. So why the internet industry? Well, that was one that I felt a native to, right, I was native to that industry, I'd used the opposite, you know, been in it since the get go. So I felt like as a user, and as somebody who could probably contribute to other senior leaders in that space, I could eventually be groomed into one. And I had the great fortune through a headhunter to get connected to this guy, Francis Lobo. So Francis is a boss, who I went to three different companies with, you know, I met him honestly, through through good luck. And I knew in the first conversation, the first interview that we had, that he was going to be, at the very least a great mentor and boss would never have guessed, he would have, you know, taken me to three companies or elevated me in two years from basically an individual contributor into a general manager and a public company with a team of a couple 100 people and $100 million p&l, so So he was a really powerful mentor and boss and, and the pivot was really, really a function of the fact that I knew my superpowers could translate into p&l ownership and could translate into team building, and I just needed to find a new context in order to have the opportunity.

Alessia Citro 8:29
Okay, so I have a sidebar question. How did you find your superpowers? I feel like this is something that people really struggle with.

Sam Lee 8:35
Yes, yes. Okay. So I'm speaking to my alma mater, my high school on Thursday at our senior career day, which I'm super excited about. I do this every year. And the one book, I buy every person that I can, and I'll at least recommend to every listener who's interested is Bill Burnett's book designing your life. And let me just say, if there is a book to read this quarter, you've got a month less left, if you're listening, just live. This is the book I would read. Bill Burnett is just an extraordinary human. He's the Executive Director of the Stanford design school. So the foremost thinker on design thinking, and he takes that framework and applies it to designing a wealth lift career in life. And the book really walks you through almost like a workbook. mission, values and superpowers, right, this this question of how do you define a superpower? And what I love about his book is that he says none of us have one career path, right? We have a multiplicity of different paths we could walk, and it really just comes down to knowing the mission, the values and those superpowers, superpowers being the nexus of the things you're good at. And that gives you energy. Because if they don't serve both things, they're not a true superpower. Right? If you're not good at them, and they don't give you energy if they're good at something, but it drains you by God don't, don't invest a ton of energy and time into that. So he really walks you through the playbook of how to Know the mission, the values of superpowers, and then how to, as he says, prototype these paths, figure out the right conversations do the trial and error through internships if you're young or through job experiences, or for dropouts like us, through freelance gigs, right through jobs, where you're working in the spaces where you think you could, where you could create the superpower, deliver it and have an impact. So so that's how that's how I've kind of come to know mine. It's through doing the work, but also having the frameworks like Bill Burnett to really reflect back

Alessia Citro 10:31
that is so intriguing. So how old were you when you read this book and sort of discovered that, because it seems like a lot of people I know are figuring it out a lot later than they maybe would have liked to

Sam Lee 10:41
100% 100%. So I'd say, you know, I probably read the book the first time, seven or eight years ago, so I was already, you know, in my 30s, in my, you know, your early 30s. When I read that book, you know, I've had a couple of great mentors. And I think it's those people that that spend time with you over time, that are also really well positioned to reflect back, and help you to see around the corners of what is obviously innate in you and was sure, you know, really well suited to do that might be so obvious that it's missed, right? Many of us, because we're so used to doing the thing that we're extraordinary at, or it just comes to us or naturally, we assume everybody is used to our natural audit. But in fact, that's that's exactly where the diamond in the rough exists. It's in those moments where you're in flow when you're doing it because it's natural that you're living in the superpower. And that's why it can go on notice. So having a great mentor or a friend who's been with you for years. And this is an exercise I do with every new mentee. When I was at we work I had, you know, I would always say I had about 100 mentees every year. And what that meant is that I had 100 people who I was lightly coaching, who had meet three times a year. And the first conversation, the first lunch, I take them to the beginning of the year, would always have this Barbara Walters interview, where I would really just listen to their story from as I would say, kindergarten to the present, and reflect back to them as they were telling their story, those key inflection points, those inspirational moments, those things that clearly had them at that nexus of what they were good at, and and what gave them energy. And it was through that reflecting back, I didn't have to know people well to be able to help them see more clearly through the through line of their story what those things could be. So I think having a third party perspective is useful to a

Alessia Citro 12:40
big time. I mean, people are so blind to their own genius. Hmm, I feel like you become more in tune with yours, the more that you get out and experience things and like the things that you think are so obvious and take for granted are usually what's really hard for other people and vice versa, too. So love that advice. So Alright, so last question on your corporate career, and then we're going to pivot to your dropout story. And I would say of your resume, this is the area that I'm most interested in to. So you weren't we work, they had a meteoric rise before COVID, you were there for four years, you were the SVP and head of growth there. And you actually built their first growth team and lead the cross functional initiatives that supported their 20x growth. Let me read that again. 20x growth and revenue 200 million to 4.5 billion in run rate, and 40% reduction in churn. That's just like amazing to me. So tell us about that experience, some of your biggest lessons and anything else that you want to share about your time there.

Sam Lee 13:38
So such it was such a fun time. And I think we work has been heavily reported at this point. It's like, it's the rare person that I meet, when they realize that work that we work that doesn't reference the TV show or the documentary or the book or so it's been widely reported. And I'll say so much of the reporting is spot on. Right. It was a very wild environment. We were growing and moving very quickly, moving fast and breaking things, as Mark Zuckerberg likes to say. But it was also the time of my life personally. So career wise, it was it was one of those amazing highlights. You know, over those four years, I had the pleasure of working on a mission I really cared about, you know, helping a lot of different companies and their employees to tap into not just space, but also a vibe community and a way of working that that suited them. And importantly, get I got to hire hundreds of amazing people to my teams and get to mentor and coach them. So it was a really fun period. I'd say in terms of learnings, having now worked at you know, companies like Goldman who are at the top of their industry and riding high to turn around like AOL that were in the dumps and needed to be lifted back up to hyper growth companies like we work. I'd say it's so much of the muchness it's so much of the Same stuff. And life is really, it's not about when it comes to companies and building companies, it's never rarely a lack of strategy. It's rarely a lack of strategy more often than not, they are the challenges we face are those around human dynamics, really getting people inspired, motivated and mobilized to work in unison, to get to great outcomes, right? So those are the bigger challenges, because I've yet to work at a company and I'm a strategist, I'm also general manager, we've yet we've yet to not have the strategy, and we had the growth strategies, and we actually were able to execute on them, because we certainly did grow. But when you're growing hand over fist, it's it's about constantly motivating, mobilizing, and and getting people who are coming into the organization rapidly as you're growing, growing, growing, to stay moving forward in unison. So I'd say that was my observation. And I think those are where my superpowers tend to lie. It's around strategy. It's around storytelling. It's about mobilizing and motivating people to shift into action on those important initiatives. So I'd say so much of life in businesses is actually very similar. And if you can get to the heart of these superpowers, and then help other people to motivate and mobilize, you can get really far fast.

Alessia Citro 16:21
So let me ask you something, what would you say? Well, this is gonna be a loaded question. If you had to, like put it really simply, what's the secret sauce to mobilizing and motivating people in a unified direction? My guess would be that its vision and values and mission, but what's your thoughts on them and culture?

Sam Lee 16:40
So so one of my favorite mentors authors is Beth Comstock, if you've if you've know Beth, Beth was the CMO. And and you know, one of the senior leaders at GE for many years, and she led all of their innovation efforts. She's now a big venture investor and advisor to New York City startups. So anyway, Beth Beth says in one of her books, that strategy is merely a story well told. I'll say it again. Because when I read the book, I was actually flying from I think it was Bangalore to Tokyo, I would kind of visit 40 cities, 25 countries every year with we work I was constantly on the road, I was reading her book. And she said, strategy is merely story well told, and that hit me like a brick wall. So what does she mean by that there's a whole chapter in this book on on this topic, really, to make strategy come to life, to get people to shift into action and get the job done. You need to mobilize them through storytelling, because storytelling is what puts employees or just human beings in general, into the driver's seat, it makes them protagonist because when they understand where they sit, Visa V, the strategy, and then they're, you know, they understand the why the what and the how borrowing from Simon Sinek, they're motivated, they mobilize, they get stuff done, right. So that's where I think fundamentally the most one of the most important skills any of us can develop and continue to develop to be really effective employees or corporate dropouts, in this future of work. It's storytelling, right, knowing how to communicate your story, knowing how to storytelling general to motivate, motivate and mobilize others, whether they be your employees or partners or clients. So that they're executing,

Alessia Citro 18:31
you know, a common thread I'm hearing with that, as well as being able to see like that thread that would run through someone's career based on like the story of of their own life. It's so important to have a narrative, whether you're a company, or whether it's you as an individual. That's the thing I noticed when I'm coaching people the most, they have a really hard time knowing what their story is. So I just want to underscore how important that would be. What other resources do you like in terms of helping people really sharpen that tool of storytelling? Any other books that you love podcasts?

Sam Lee 19:05
Yeah, I would say, I come back to so there's so many, there's so many great books. And I would say, most of my mentors, I have had a number of like bosses and live mentors, so many have been books and podcasts. So I would say you know, the I'll come back to Beth Comstock, I'll come back to Bill Burnett, I think those are great frameworks. And I'll just say find, find somebody who's been with you for a chapter or for multiple chapters and do that Barbara Walters interview, ask them to listen to your story. Right? And don't Don't be contrived. Just tell your story from kindergarten to the present. Take an hour to do that. That's what I would do every single time I met a new mentee over lunch and the things that you're going to uncover that they'll really help you uncover in that hour long conversation will be invaluable. And take note of those and then do some reflection on them. Get a journal and all at at those moments of inflection that they help you to identify, write down what you were feeling, write down what you were doing. Think about those, those kind of intersectionalities of what you're good at and what you were doing and how you were getting energy from them. I think just a few of those reflections in isolation are going to get you a lot further faster around that narrative. And also clarifying your mission.

Alessia Citro 20:26
I love that such good advice. So let's talk about the dropout moment. So you left we work April 2020. So right after COVID Hit which impacted that company, enormous Lee right, because all of a sudden, everyone has to work from home. So tell us what happened and how you became a dropout?

Sam Lee 20:43
Yeah, absolutely. Well, honestly, it was not a glorious exit from we work. Context wise for again, for those who haven't watched the shows and read the books, we attempted an IPO, the summer fall of 2019. And it was a calamitous affair to like, put it lightly. It didn't work, we work did not work, at least not to our plan at that moment in time. And it meant, unfortunately, having hired hundreds of people, and grown tremendously, we had to wind the thing back and it was no longer about growth, which was my charter, it was really about getting to profitability as quickly as humanly possible so that another attempted an IPO could be made. And fast forward. Two years later, the IPO happened. But it took that amount of time to get the company on track from high high high growth mode to a profitability mode. So that's that's kind of the Fast Forward history. But I entered the workforce as an independent because I no longer had employment, I had to wind down those teams. And then I had to step back because there just wasn't a job for anymore. We weren't doing growth. So there were other things to do. There were other startups that were coming and knocking on my door because they were looking to grow. But rather than jump headfirst into the next full time thing, I figured, let me let me take what I've been doing on the side for years, which was advising, investing, consulting, and just make it make it the foreground make it my full time thing. And I did honestly think at the time that it was going to be a short term vehicle, six months, no more than a year to try before I buy, right to really get to know some CEOs, their teams, roll up my sleeves, make an impact and see where I could fit in for the long term. And it wasn't until I was six months into full time independent consulting, that I realized just how much opportunity there was in this space for me, and I think just about for every every person out there. So like, what were my results in six months, what were the things that I saw myself achieving unexpectedly, I will say, first, within the six months, I was connecting with interesting clients, I was working on fun engagements, I had a portfolio approach to life, which is something that my mom who's you know, 30 years more, my senior is doing now she's on board. She's written a book, she's consulting, but I thought, Oh, those are not things for me right now. I'm too young, right, I'm only my mid to late 30s. So I started to find that I had this really cool portfolio. Second, this portfolio had me working about 20 hours a week. And in those 20 hours, within six months, I was making more than I did as a full time executive in half the time in half the time, right? So you can imagine traveling to dozens of cities, 20 plus countries a year, I had no personal time, which I was okay with, because that was a very small sacrifice for an incredible experience. But I had a wealth of time, I had spaciousness to do some personal stuff that I'd never done or let fall by the wayside. So. So those things combined the interesting portfolio, the great income, the spaciousness had me thinking, wow, this is actually a long term path, not a short term pitstop. And also, as I was speaking to more and more people like you and I, who had worked at great companies who had developed their craft, what I found is that the potential was there for almost all of us. But it really just came down to having the right building blocks, right, because once you know your craft, that is going to that's going to work right you can do the client work, but building the book, right, building the business and having the balanced life, those are not things that necessarily come as naturally because we've not necessarily done it before. So that led me to launch my company indie collective, which is really a modern NBA style program to help independents to, to get those things, the practical playbooks, the mentors and the community to do that.

Alessia Citro 24:38
Tell us a little bit more about any collective to because when we talked about this, I think we met what a couple months ago maybe, and we were connecting about it and it sounds like we have a lot of synergy between what I'm launching the collective and indie collective, although mine is maybe for more of like the entrepreneurs just getting rolling and like just starting out. Tell us a little bit more about your program and the offering and all that plug away. Yeah. Tell us about you, by the way.

Sam Lee 25:03
Absolutely happy to have you to share all the details. So, so yeah, Indy collective, as I said, was inspired. Because I need it, right, I needed something just like this for myself. So I had the benefit when I went independent of already having more than, you know, 15, seven and eight figure independent practitioners in my immediate network, people who were able to mentor me on the building blocks that make for a successful business, how to productize how to price how to streamline how to go to market, how to do things that, at least in their, in their entirety, were not obvious, because I had always had the support, right, just like all of us do IT companies, nonprofits in the bigger context. So So I had the benefit of mentors, and they were able to get me in six months to a place where I was achieving those outcomes. But when I spoke to 10s, hundreds now more than 1000, top independence, I found that to many people, even 234, some five, six years in are still struggling with some of these things that have been playbooks that can be mentored against that should not be left to trial and error, because nobody should be leaving their success and fulfillment to trial and error if they've developed their craft. Right. So if you know how to do your thing with excellence, the rest can be taught and should be learned from somebody that's done it not by Google, because there's too much garbage.

Alessia Citro 26:25
And the time of Googling, like, you can probably figure it out, but how much time is that gonna take you, you know, correct and time around money and it's also being disrupted, potentially, you know, and someone beating

Sam Lee 26:37
time is money, your time is value that you're not creating for yourself for the market. And, and, and yeah, I don't like to leave things to trial and error myself, if I can. There's some things that you have to but but but a lot of this stuff has been playbooks. So So anyway, I needed this and I created the first Cindy collective actually did it for free. I pulled together a dozen of these mentors, people I was already working with who, who had been sharing their playbooks with me and I pulled together 30 of my nearest and dearest people who had graduated or dropped out of great companies. And we did a 10 week experience together. I didn't charge anybody anything, because I really wanted to make sure that what we were teaching how we're teaching, it worked, right. And when people from that initial cohort had pretty amazing results. And more and more and more people were being referred, it naturally turned into what is now Indy collective, which is a 10 week, cohort based experience that we that we deliver twice a year in the spring, and in the fall 80% of our members are with us for a full year. And over the course the year, they're getting that intensive set of playbooks on topics ranging from designing for independence to think life design for independence, to how you productize so you stop trading time for money to how you differentiate your brand. So you reach when and, you know, work with clients on the right terms to value based pricing, how you raise your rates by 50%, which is what our average members do in 10 weeks to developing their go to market playbook. So you're attracting and winning the clients to streamlining your back office. So you hopefully save eight hours a week. So those are all topics that we cover. And the cool part is that I really believe that independence shouldn't come at the cost of community. Right? In fact, when you do your independence, your work in your life, in community alongside a group of people that you care about, you will be more successful and more fulfilled, full stop, there's just no question. Because I've seen it my own life. I've seen it now in the lives of the hundreds of people that have had a chance to work with. And what we do in the 10 weeks is we don't just equip you with the playbooks and introduce you to the mentors, we we actually surround you by 150 other extraordinary human beings, people that I've interviewed people that have extraordinary backgrounds, but that also want to be in a community. And the cool part is that when you've got that vibe, combined with the actual playbooks, 80% of people do business together, they trade referrals, they collaborate on projects, they use each other's services. So it becomes this neat ecosystem, almost a family for business and life when we're building in this independent swim lane.

Alessia Citro 29:22
That is exactly the vision that I have for Thea collective to like it that's been my favorite part of entrepreneurship is once you start making the connections and just like following the breadcrumbs as I like to say, the amount of amazing people that you get to meet like you like I would have never met you if it hadn't been for Tanya. And I would have met her if it hadn't been for Cameron. And so yeah, that's the best part the community for sure. And just sending business back and forth

Sam Lee 29:45
helping each other out. 100% 100%.

Alessia Citro 29:47
So let me ask you something to a little bit of like a tangent. Maybe this is a good thing to close on. I have this feeling we're kind of like on the cusp of a like second economy, right? Like there's the traditional economy with like these big corporations, and then there's so many of us that have left the workforce that are doing our own thing like, What's your thought on that? Like, if you hadn't guessed what the future of work and business looks like, do you think the independent movement will only grow? Or what? What's the what's your outlook?

Sam Lee 30:16
Absolutely, um, you know, when I think about the future of work, I think there's a few words that that come to mind. And these are words that I think are, are winning hearts and minds in the context of companies as well as in the independent workforce. I think flexibility is now the number one word. So interestingly, you know, that was not even in the top five, if you look at Gallup, if you look at any of these kinds of organizations that take surveys, flexibility wasn't even in the top five, even two years ago, but COVID has shifted hearts and minds and also just forced everybody from Big and small and every other, every other format in between, to work remote. And I think there's not been it's not been easy, certainly for parents and for all sorts of people who have responsibility, and are sharing space for work in life. But it's also created a lot of flexibility. And that's the silver lining. So I think that's going to be the first word that defines the future of work, whether you're in the context of a company and full time, or whether you're doing your independent thing, people want more of it. And whether you're employing somebody, fractionally or full time, you need to be thoughtful about how you're getting that, you know, making that a priority for your employees. And for those you work with. I think that's the first one. I think the other the other word that's now on the rise is remote. I don't think we have to be in person, remote or hybrid, I think it's going to be, you know, very prevalent going forward. And again, there's just such benefits. We've seen people like myself, leave New York City, where I spent the bulk of my career and moved to Miami Beach, where I'm two blocks from the beach, I'm able to enjoy my setting year round, and also work with all the same clients, because they're able to flexibly work with me over zoom, and I'm able to drop in to their office when I'm absolutely needed. So I think that'll be another another word. The last word that I'd say, has been has been important for so many years, but I think has come into greater focus over the last few years of COVID is mission. And mission has always mattered. But when the culture confetti evaporated, right, when the office space, which I was selling it we work, the party is the the stuff that was happening in the confines of the four walls of corporate America evaporated quickly, a heck of a lot of corporate dropouts started to you know, this great resignation accelerated because people realize, gosh, the thing I'm grinding on nine to five, or now nine to six, or seven or eight, because they were working around the clock, it wasn't particularly fun or mission oriented, they got bored pretty quickly. So I think mission matters. And, and the companies that have mission that are storytelling, effectively mobilizing people around strategies in that mission, are going to be the companies that prevail and that are winning this war for talent. And then I think people will continue to go independent, I think that is the form factor of the future of work is is mission driven companies and independent work. So 30% Plus is working. I agree. It's gonna be on the rise. Yeah,

Alessia Citro 33:31
it's kind of amazing. I almost fell over, we're gonna go back to like the mom and pop type of thing. But like the modern version of that. Yes. Like, it'll be a lot of independence and smaller companies versus like, huge conglomerates. Well, that's what's so interesting. Sam, thank you so much for coming on. Before we sign off, give a little teaser of what you're going to talk about in the business tip mini episode that drops tomorrow, and then tell our listeners where they can connect with you find you and work with you.

Sam Lee 33:55
Absolutely. Well, we're going to be talking in just a minute about relationship building at scale. This is one of my favorite topics. And it really comes to the heart of knowing your story. activating your network creatively and staying top of mine. So we're going to get into the three ways that you can do that next. In order to stay in touch, feel free to check us out at Indie collective.co. It's spelled i n d collective.co. You can check out our podcast, which is the modern independent, wherever you listen to your podcasts for interviewing every week, seven and eight figure business builders who are sharing their playbooks that you can get further faster, as well as our members who are walking the independent path alongside you and who are addressing these points of leverage in their business of life and getting further faster. So fun to be joined to you today.

Alessia Citro 34:49
Yeah, thank you for coming on. This was wonderful, and I'm looking forward to the episode we're about to record everyone. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back tomorrow. This episode was brought to you by Theia collective the learning community I found it for entrepreneur's text biz, that's BIZ 29495778709 or head to Thea dash collective.com. That's THEIA dash collective.com to learn more. Thanks for listening to the show. If you enjoyed today's episode, please help me get the word out about the corporate drop out by screenshotting and sharing this on social. I would appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and leave a five star rating and review as well. And I do this show for you and I want to hear from you. So tell me what is it that you want more of text me at 949-541-0951 or slide into the DMS at corporate dropout official or Alessia Citro with two underscores until next time